2024 Longpac

[Grace]

I happened to be at the St. Francis Yacht Club this morning just before the 9am Longpac start. Other than 35 intrepid open water swimmers completing their swim from Alcatraz along with various support craft, no SSS boats were present. Assuming that Skip's prediction in another thread was correct that Race Committee cancelled due to the challenging offshore forecast, will the 2024 Longpac be run at another time?

[BobJ]

The LongPac start was postponed to Monday, July 1.
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[Grace]

Thanks, Bob.

To RC: It would be good to have that change reflected in the SIs. Will there be tracker access on Jibeset?

[sleddog]

. Assuming that Skip's prediction in another thread was correct that Race Committee cancelled due to the challenging offshore forecast, will the 2024 Longpac be run at another time?

Misquote by Grace. I wrote "postponed, " not cancelled. This is reflected in the current SI's on Jibeset. Monday, July 1 start at 0900.

I should also mention to competitors that there is historical precedence for assuming 126.40 degrees W is the Turn Around Longitude. Read closely my friends, it is not and you will be DSQ or DNF if you think so. I would also suggest making sure the Units on your tracker are set correctly, and that you use Knots, not MPH.

If you reach 126.40 degrees W and turn back for SF, you will not have completed your SHTP Qualifier required distance and may have to do it all over again. If you reach 126 Degrees, 40 minutes West then decide to sail to Santa Cruz or Monterey without finishing at San Francisco, you will complete your Qualifier distance of 400 nautical miles.

[Grace]

Perhaps “now reflected in the SIs” would be more appropriate since the SI changes came only after a member of the peanut gallery complained about the lack of current information.

Also, can we agree that anyone who prepares a boat for the Longpac and starts on time and reaches longitude 126.4 W and finishes the race automatically qualifies for the Singlehanded Transpac? If not, change the requirements for the SHTP instead of holding onto arcane requirements from the last century with a grimaced look on your face and white knuckles grasping at irrelevant rules.

Are you that eager to DSQ or DNF a participant for not sailing 400 nm when you well know that to reach the target longitude from the SF Bay the vast majority of sailors will have covered well over the required distance? This is the problem with RC (David Herrigal are you there?) just phoning it in and dragging cut and paste SIs from the last race without thinking about what is really relevant and useful.

[BobJ]

Hmm, not a lot of "grace" in these posts. I got my information about the postponed start from a LongPac competitor. There are only six of them, since Cliff is already past 125W on his way to Hawaii. The LongPac RC is no doubt keeping them informed and has no duty to also inform this "peanut gallery," to use your term.

Sled has me curious. If you sail 270T to 126 40W and 90T back to the start, how many nautical miles have you sailed? I could chart it but I gather Sled already has. I think Grace's point is that nobody sails the LongPac that way. I may have come the closest with Ragtime! in 2011. I tried again with Surprise! in 2019 but the autopilot didn't cooperate. Sailing that high on the way out is tough "sled"ding, but it does minimize the distance.

[sleddog]

Read the Instructions, FCS. The Long Pac turn around is 126 degrees 40 minutes, not 126.4 degrees which is a considerably shorter distance by ~16 miles. There is a difference you know, and if you are in a race, you don't cut marks.

And no, IMHO, for the Qualifier you can't count nautical miles zig-zagging around. You have to reach 100 miles offshore at some point and complete 400 miles port to port, even though you may return to some other port from whence you started.

As we remember for a past Qualifier, there was a potential competitor who spent several days sailing back and forth inside SF Bay, claiming he had qualified sailing the required distance.

In answer to BobJ, if "you sail 270T to 126 40W and 90T back to the start at St.FYC," you will have sailed 402 nm. Pac Cup is more lenient. You only have to go 150 miles total, and can motor up the shore at night in calm conditions, hihi.

Please don't mistake me for a member of the RC or writing the rules, although I have been on the course with SSS since 1977 and could be considered an interested party, supporter, and weirdo for bug lights.

[BobJ]

It's still early, but it's fun to see the 2,000# Akumu (21' LWL) hanging with the 15,500# Cal 40 Shaman (30' LWL). It appeared Greg got to the breeze first and took off, with Bart close behind. Daniel on Galaxsea is back inside the Bay.

[FUGU-W30]

Tracker link is here: https://www.jibeset.net/gpsshare.php?A0=JACKY&A1=T004496269&A2=NjY4MzRiNDM5ZjkyMw==&A3=4c2c412eae2847b0821e546606e75667

Also open to the public on Jibset under the Singlehanded Sailing.

I for one am grateful to David Herrigel and all the other volunteers working to keep the SSS machinery moving, all of these folks have day jobs. What I saw was a PRO that made a hard call to postpone due to unsafe conditions. At the time it was thought that the next safe window was going to be more than a week out. Not long after the forecast changed, David saw an opportunity to run the race, and as it turned out the logistics works well for the majority of the racers. No phoning it in from my perspective.

Turns out I didn't know the difference between where 126.4W vs 126 40W would get me until just before my qualifying sail in 2017. 16 miles off in that stretch of water would have no greater consequence than a DSQ if I had been racing. But i can imagine other situations where my ignorance of that seemingly trivial difference could cause me to loose my boat and life. Education is one of the tenants of the SSS hence the great SHTP preparation seminars that will be starting in anticipation of the 2025 running. I'm grateful for the all the knowledge freely shared by others that have gone before me.

The SSS is only as good as it's volunteers, and we are always looking for folks willing to keep the SSS moving forward. If anybody wants to contribute to the SSS please contact me at: commodore@sfbaysss.org

Chris Case, SSS Commodore

[Grace]

PZZ570-021030
Waters from Point Arena to Point Reyes 10-60 NM
253 PM PDT Mon Jul 1 2024

SMALL CRAFT ADVISORY IN EFFECT UNTIL 3 PM PDT THIS AFTERNOON

GALE WARNING IN EFFECT THROUGH TUESDAY AFTERNOON

THIS AFTERNOON
NW wind 25 to 30 kt. Seas 9 to 12 ft. Wave Detail: NW 9 ft at 9 seconds and SW 2 ft at 14 seconds.

TONIGHT
NW wind 25 to 30 kt with gusts up to 40 kt. Seas 10 to 12 ft, building to 10 to 14 ft after midnight. Wave Detail: NW 10 ft at 9 seconds and S 2 ft at 16 seconds.

TUE
N wind 25 to 30 kt with gusts up to 40 kt. Seas 9 to 13 ft. Wave Detail: NW 10 ft at 9 seconds.

TUE NIGHT
N wind 25 to 30 kt with gusts up to 40 kt. Seas 11 to 15 ft. Wave Detail: NW 11 ft at 9 seconds.

[BobJ]

Duende is back inside the Bay, Freedom is getting close and the other three are also headed back. I would be too!

[Aussie]

The Races currently being tracked by Jibeset can always be found at https://www.jibeset.net/tv.php
The Library of previously tracked races can be found at https://www.jibeset.net/track05.php

[solosailor]

If not, change the requirements for the SHTP instead of holding onto arcane requirements from the last century with a grimaced look on your face and white knuckles grasping at irrelevant rules.You can go do your qualifier any time to anywhere as long as you reach 100nm offshore and 400nm distance covered. As for your naive and asinine comments about "arcane requirement" or "irrelevant rules" I think you owe the decades of active SSS members and RC an apology for your crass behavior as these rules were well thought out and come with again, decades, of forethought and experience.

[Grace]

Greg

For those of you who worship at Skip Allen’s altar, it may be difficult to admit that sometimes he makes statements which are misleading and factually in error. For example, he writes above:

“If you reach 126.40 degrees W and turn back for SF, you will not have completed your SHTP Qualifier required distance and may have to do it all over again.”

This is false. You can prove me wrong by using your your long tenure in the SSS and tell us over the entire history of the Longpac has anyone you know ever started at the GGYC, reached Lon 126.4, returned to the finish and sailed less than 400nm?

If you are having trouble coming up with any candidates, it’s because what is theoretically possible is practically impossible as sailing a strait line course upwind against prevailing currents forces the journey to be longer than 400 nm.

But more importantly, it entirely misses the point of preparing for the SHTP. Any sailor who singlehandedly completes this difficult journey deserves to be welcomed into the SHTP.

Skip also writes above:

“If you reach 126 Degrees, 40 minutes West then decide to sail to Santa Cruz or Monterey without finishing at San Francisco, you will complete your Qualifier distance of 400 nautical miles.”

This is nonsensical since Skip admits later that the strait line distance from SF to 126 degrees, 40 minutes is 402 nm. If so, why sail to Santa Cruz or Monterey?

As to my comments on RC’s decisions, I stand by them. David Herrigal made a good call in postponing this year’s Longpac on June 29th due to hazardous weather. However, rescheduling the race two days later on July 1st was a bad call as the forecast I posted above was available at the time the decision was made. Fortunately, all the competitors realized early that continuing on was the wrong call and nobody got hurt.

As to RC sending a 1,800 lb boat into 40 knot gusts and 15 ft seas at 9 sec, you be the judge.

Steve Saul

[BobJ]

Steve, 126.4 computes to 126 degrees 24 minutes. Skip is simply pointing out this is short of the required 126 degrees 40 minutes for the LongPac.

And it's Skip Allan. He and his family have cruised extensively and raced internationally at the highest levels, where precision matters. Most of us value his contributions here. Since you don't, may I suggest there are other sailing forums you can read?
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[Daydreamer]

Arm chair sailors are a dime a dozen.
People sit behind their computers and judge others, never actually doing anything difficult or contributing their time, except to judge.

I KNOW it is my responsibility whether to go, or not, or turn around, and not put others in danger to come bail me out.
No one makes me sign up to race.
No one makes me start.
No one makes me continue.

We, the racers, looked at a potential forecast that looked do-able and decided to give it a go.

If I had started Saturday I would have sailed out and turned around before conditions became impossible.
Just like I did Monday.
My little 2000 pound boat bounced around on the waves like a cork until there were more breakers than not and I decided to head back.
The guys on the 15,000 pound boats weren't having any easier of a time.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/lZs0NiffF2w

I haven't been sailing on the ocean all my life and value knowledge and insight of those who have.
I respect the men and women who have done it and share freely and help the next ones.

[Philpott]

In case we have forgotten, Cliff started the LongPac on Saturday aboard s/v Rainbow.

https://vimeo.com/751402557

"There is a very good chance when I get 200 miles out I’ll decide I don’t want to come back in 200 miles then have to beat 200 miles back out to sea again, so I might decide to withdraw from the race and just continue on to Hawaii. In either case, my daily tracker will show where I am and which way I’m headed. The boat will be fully provisioned for going non-stop to Hawaii.

I’ll be in Hawaii, primarily in Kauai, through August then head home about the first of September, getting home in late September."

If you are interested in following Cliff's progress, find him here: https://share.garmin.com/CliffordShaw

[Critter]

IMHO, for the Qualifier you can't count nautical miles zig-zagging around. You have to reach 100 miles offshore at some point and complete 400 miles port to port, even though you may return to some other port from whence you started.

I'm staying out of the major brouhaha that's arisen in this discussion, but I'm a little surprised to read Skip's opinions quoted above. For my most recent SHTP qualifier, I sailed roughly southwest from Oceanside until I was sure I was more than 100 nm offshore, then north to Santa Catalina, south and north and south again, and when I found myself a mile off Oceanside with the log reading 403 I said "I guess I'm done!" I can think of someone else who (as I recall) did something similar out of San Francisco, getting 100 miles offshore then moseying south and north along the coast until the miles added up. Skip, am I misunderstanding what you mean by zig-zagging around?

Then: "port to port"? An experienced sailor who is well known to the oldtimers here did a qualifier off SoCal and Mexico, ran into some mechanical or weather problems, and started his engine after 400 miles and motored a substantial distance home. At the time (well before my own first SHTP), I questioned on this forum whether this was a legitimate qualifier, since he hadn't sailed to a port. He brusquely declared that it was, and afaik it was accepted by the race committee.

Skip's standards for a qualifier are certainly defensible, but I wonder how widely shared they are.
Max/Iniscaw

PS Skip, hope you're recovering well.

[sleddog]

I'm staying out of the major brouhaha that's arisen in this discussion, but I'm a little surprised to read Skip's opinions quoted above. ...Skip's standards for a qualifier are certainly defensible, but I wonder how widely shared they are. Max/Iniscaw

Hi Max, Despite the SHTP NOR calling for a 400 mile Qualifier port-to-port, I am all for letting Common Sense prevail. A Qualifier doesn't have to be straight line to a fixed turn-around point. As long as sufficient proof exists, you can sail 400 nautical miles around islands, fixed buoys, even artificial waypoints. And if you don't make it back to port, the SHTP RC has always shown compassion.

What is bothersome is the practice of using decimal degrees and statue miles for charting, STW for estimating distance, and other false assumptions for completing either the Qualifier or Long Pac when the NOR clearly says " 400 nautical miles."

Just because the chart plotter or tracker says so, doesn't mean it's true. Many cruisers and some racers with trackers have their electronic assistance set to land measurements and have run afoul in most unfortunate or unusual manners.

It was recently claimed in post #14 above:


For those of you who worship at Skip Allen’s altar, it may be difficult to admit that sometimes he makes statements which are misleading and factually in error. For example, he writes above: “If you reach 126.40 degrees W and turn back for SF, you will not have completed your SHTP Qualifier required distance and may have to do it all over again.”

This is false. You can prove me wrong by using your your long tenure in the SSS and tell us over the entire history of the Longpac has anyone you know ever started at the GGYC, reached Lon 126.4, returned to the finish and sailed less than 400nm?

If you are having trouble coming up with any candidates, it’s because what is theoretically possible is practically impossible as sailing a strait line course upwind against prevailing currents forces the journey to be longer than 400 nm.

This poster needs to wake up in his above assertion. In 2019 two Long Pac competitors vying for overall honors thought they had reached the turnaround at 126 degrees 40 min. when they had not. The RC did notice and alerted the competitors who graciously withdrew (DNF). Photo evidence on this Forum and results on Jibeset stand as proof.

FYI, my surname is "Allan," not "Allen," my grandfather and father drilled that into my brain, and I've been using that for 79 years. Thank you.

[brianb]

Here is the wording for the SHTP qualifier copied from the NOR, section 5.8: a. Except as provided below, within 24 months of the Race’s starting date, the entrant shall have
completed a Qualifying Cruise in the entered yacht. The Qualifying Cruise shall not be less than
400 nautical miles and shall be made entirely under sail, non-stop and singlehanded. The
Qualifying Cruise may be between two ports or may start and finish at the same port, provided
that one turning point is at least 100 nautical miles offshore

This description does not rule out zig - zagging in order to accumulate 400 miles of distance and going at least 100 miles offshore.